wantMyGC
07-14 07:27 PM
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/jul2007/db20070713_687551.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index _businessweek+exclusives
The Gandhi Protests
Denied the permanent U.S. residency they'd been promised, high-skilled workers are taking to the streets in nonviolent protest
Engineers, computer programmers, and tech workers aren't known for outspoken collective action and political protest. But on July 14, up to 1,000 high-skilled, legal immigrants will gather in San Jose, Calif., to express their outrage at the U.S. government's failure to deliver on a promise to hasten the processing of their green-card applications. Many of these immigrants came to the U.S. from India on visas and have been stuck in what they say is an interminable wait for permanent residency and the freedoms it brings.
"We're stepping out to bring this issue to the attention of lawmakers and the public," says Ashish Sharma, 37, who has worked as a manager at a tech firm in Los Angeles for seven years, awaiting his green card. "The debate has been dominated by illegal immigration, but we want to put a spotlight on the hurdles we're facing as a hard-working and law-abiding group. It's time for corrective action."
Sharma says he spent $5,000 flying his wife and children to the U.S. from India to prepare green-card documents that the government originally said it would accept and then later decided not to accept. Tomorrow, he will drive more than five hours to San Jose to meet hundreds of others stuck in the green-card backlog who want to make a public statement about their frustrations.
Long Delays Spur Protests
The rally follows a symbolic action on July 10 in which hundreds of green-card applicants sent flowers to the director of U.S. Citizenship & Immigration Services in a show of peaceful protest reminiscent of Mohandas Gandhi's nonviolent campaign against British rule before India gained independence in 1947. The idea for both the flower sending and the rally emerged from Immigration Voice, a group that advocates for high-tech immigrants in the U.S. on visas.
The Gandhi protests, though grounded in years of frustration and anger, were sparked by recent events. On June 12, the U.S. State Dept. issued a bulletin promising it was ready to move hundreds of thousands of green-card applicants into the final phase of processing, known as the Adjustment of Status. Visa workers rushed to complete their Adjustment of Status applications for July 2, the first day they could be submitted. Applicants scrambled to gather signatures, birth certificates, and immunization records, many taking off work and rearranging travel plans. But at the beginning of July, the State Dept. retracted the bulletin, explaining the U.S. Citizenship & Immigration Services had already fulfilled its quota and would not accept further applications. The immigrant community exploded, with critics saying they are the victims of bureaucratic incompetence and a broken immigration policy.
The green-card backlog has emerged because of a mismatch between the number of visa holders and the number of green cards available to them each year. Tens of thousands of foreign workers enter the U.S. on work visas each year, and many apply for green cards. But current government rules limit the number of people who can be admitted to the U.S. from any particular country to 9,800. The result is that for larger countries, including India and China, the wait for permanent U.S. residency now stretches for years. As they wait, visa workers are required to maintain the same job and salary, or they are bumped back to the long queue. That leaves many of the most educated and talented immigrants feeling stuck, sometimes to the point of hopelessness (see BusinessWeek.com, 6/21/07, "One Easy Fix for Immigration").
Joining the Chorus
Many American companies are concerned about the government's immigration policies. Tech companies, including IBM (IBM), Motorola (MOT), Oracle (ORCL), eBay (EBAY), and Intel (INTC), have pressured Congress to allow in more skilled workers on temporary and permanent visas. Google (GOOG), with many immigrants at the company including one of the founders, sent one of its top executives to make the case in Washington (see BusinessWeek.com, 6/7/07, "Immigration: Google Makes Its Case"). Bill Gates, Microsoft's (MSFT) co-founder, also made the trip to Congress to argue for a change in policy (see BusinessWeek.com, 3/8/07, "Gates to Senate: More Visas").
Immigration Voice has for several years been a forum for visa workers awaiting green cards, but it is now becoming a critical organizing tool through its Web site, volunteer leadership, and increased lobbying efforts. Immigration Voice President Aman Kapoor says green-card applicants are busy organizing a series of rallies to take place across the country on one day next month.
"This is not the usual population to go into the streets and protest; it's a group that has remained quiet and follows the rules," says Kapoor. "But people have lost faith in the system, and we have reached a tipping point in terms of frustration. There's an understanding that more dramatic action is needed."
The Gandhi Protests
Denied the permanent U.S. residency they'd been promised, high-skilled workers are taking to the streets in nonviolent protest
Engineers, computer programmers, and tech workers aren't known for outspoken collective action and political protest. But on July 14, up to 1,000 high-skilled, legal immigrants will gather in San Jose, Calif., to express their outrage at the U.S. government's failure to deliver on a promise to hasten the processing of their green-card applications. Many of these immigrants came to the U.S. from India on visas and have been stuck in what they say is an interminable wait for permanent residency and the freedoms it brings.
"We're stepping out to bring this issue to the attention of lawmakers and the public," says Ashish Sharma, 37, who has worked as a manager at a tech firm in Los Angeles for seven years, awaiting his green card. "The debate has been dominated by illegal immigration, but we want to put a spotlight on the hurdles we're facing as a hard-working and law-abiding group. It's time for corrective action."
Sharma says he spent $5,000 flying his wife and children to the U.S. from India to prepare green-card documents that the government originally said it would accept and then later decided not to accept. Tomorrow, he will drive more than five hours to San Jose to meet hundreds of others stuck in the green-card backlog who want to make a public statement about their frustrations.
Long Delays Spur Protests
The rally follows a symbolic action on July 10 in which hundreds of green-card applicants sent flowers to the director of U.S. Citizenship & Immigration Services in a show of peaceful protest reminiscent of Mohandas Gandhi's nonviolent campaign against British rule before India gained independence in 1947. The idea for both the flower sending and the rally emerged from Immigration Voice, a group that advocates for high-tech immigrants in the U.S. on visas.
The Gandhi protests, though grounded in years of frustration and anger, were sparked by recent events. On June 12, the U.S. State Dept. issued a bulletin promising it was ready to move hundreds of thousands of green-card applicants into the final phase of processing, known as the Adjustment of Status. Visa workers rushed to complete their Adjustment of Status applications for July 2, the first day they could be submitted. Applicants scrambled to gather signatures, birth certificates, and immunization records, many taking off work and rearranging travel plans. But at the beginning of July, the State Dept. retracted the bulletin, explaining the U.S. Citizenship & Immigration Services had already fulfilled its quota and would not accept further applications. The immigrant community exploded, with critics saying they are the victims of bureaucratic incompetence and a broken immigration policy.
The green-card backlog has emerged because of a mismatch between the number of visa holders and the number of green cards available to them each year. Tens of thousands of foreign workers enter the U.S. on work visas each year, and many apply for green cards. But current government rules limit the number of people who can be admitted to the U.S. from any particular country to 9,800. The result is that for larger countries, including India and China, the wait for permanent U.S. residency now stretches for years. As they wait, visa workers are required to maintain the same job and salary, or they are bumped back to the long queue. That leaves many of the most educated and talented immigrants feeling stuck, sometimes to the point of hopelessness (see BusinessWeek.com, 6/21/07, "One Easy Fix for Immigration").
Joining the Chorus
Many American companies are concerned about the government's immigration policies. Tech companies, including IBM (IBM), Motorola (MOT), Oracle (ORCL), eBay (EBAY), and Intel (INTC), have pressured Congress to allow in more skilled workers on temporary and permanent visas. Google (GOOG), with many immigrants at the company including one of the founders, sent one of its top executives to make the case in Washington (see BusinessWeek.com, 6/7/07, "Immigration: Google Makes Its Case"). Bill Gates, Microsoft's (MSFT) co-founder, also made the trip to Congress to argue for a change in policy (see BusinessWeek.com, 3/8/07, "Gates to Senate: More Visas").
Immigration Voice has for several years been a forum for visa workers awaiting green cards, but it is now becoming a critical organizing tool through its Web site, volunteer leadership, and increased lobbying efforts. Immigration Voice President Aman Kapoor says green-card applicants are busy organizing a series of rallies to take place across the country on one day next month.
"This is not the usual population to go into the streets and protest; it's a group that has remained quiet and follows the rules," says Kapoor. "But people have lost faith in the system, and we have reached a tipping point in terms of frustration. There's an understanding that more dramatic action is needed."
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Legal
11-07 02:09 PM
1.Audit the companies that are suspected to abuse the H1B program i.e. enforce the laws that are already in existence.
2.Impose heavy fines on these companies.
3.Use this money to cover the costs of auditing and enforcing the laws.
How will raising the H1B fees for everyone in a blanket fashion address the current "abuses"?
2.Impose heavy fines on these companies.
3.Use this money to cover the costs of auditing and enforcing the laws.
How will raising the H1B fees for everyone in a blanket fashion address the current "abuses"?
realizeit
05-26 04:15 PM
Salient features of Bill: S.1085
After analyzing this bill, I found the following:
1. This bill will recapture all those unused employment based visas (gcs) from 1992 till 2008 and it will add those recaptured visas to this year's employment based quota.
2. After the passage of this bill, any unused visas will rollover to the next year. So, no more wastage of visas as we go forward.
3. Per country limit will be increased from 7% to 10%, so more folks from over subscribed countries would be able to come under the normal yearly quota.
4. We will be able to avail the benefits of the recapture after 60 days of the passage of the bill. That means, if they are able to recapture 220,000 (approx) employment based visas, the employment based category will be able to use all those after 60 days of the passage of this bill. USCIS is pre-adjudicating all I485s pending and if this bill gets passed in say for eg by October 30, almost all (80%) in this community (who filed 485) would be able get their GCs in Jan and Feb of 2010.
What makes this bill much more interesting is:
1. This is not a bill targetting the issues of Employment based category - So there won't be a huge backlash against this in the name of the economy and recession. The provisions for the employment category are just one item in this bill.
2. Family based immigration reform has a wider range of support from all kinds of groups unlike Employment based immigration reform. Just search for this bill "Reuniting Families Act" in google news and you can identify all those organizations supporting this bill (they all have a news release).
Complete Text of this Bill:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:S.1085:
After analyzing this bill, I found the following:
1. This bill will recapture all those unused employment based visas (gcs) from 1992 till 2008 and it will add those recaptured visas to this year's employment based quota.
2. After the passage of this bill, any unused visas will rollover to the next year. So, no more wastage of visas as we go forward.
3. Per country limit will be increased from 7% to 10%, so more folks from over subscribed countries would be able to come under the normal yearly quota.
4. We will be able to avail the benefits of the recapture after 60 days of the passage of the bill. That means, if they are able to recapture 220,000 (approx) employment based visas, the employment based category will be able to use all those after 60 days of the passage of this bill. USCIS is pre-adjudicating all I485s pending and if this bill gets passed in say for eg by October 30, almost all (80%) in this community (who filed 485) would be able get their GCs in Jan and Feb of 2010.
What makes this bill much more interesting is:
1. This is not a bill targetting the issues of Employment based category - So there won't be a huge backlash against this in the name of the economy and recession. The provisions for the employment category are just one item in this bill.
2. Family based immigration reform has a wider range of support from all kinds of groups unlike Employment based immigration reform. Just search for this bill "Reuniting Families Act" in google news and you can identify all those organizations supporting this bill (they all have a news release).
Complete Text of this Bill:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:S.1085:
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sriwaitingforgc
06-11 04:54 PM
finished calling all the reps. Lets hope these bills get passed.
SRK.
SRK.
more...
rkg000
04-20 06:15 PM
It seems that some of us want to fight, but don't have a dedicated thread. Instead we have been hijacking other useful threads.
What I propose here is a FIGHT THREAD.
Yes, this is a copycat idea from FIGHT CLUB
How we go about:
1.) Establish a dedicated thread - just for fighting.
2.) At a pre-determined time (of day or night), fighters login.
3.) They start fighting and all posts/fights will be restricted to FIGHT THREAD only.
4.) Fight ends at a specificed time.
5.) Fighters take a break until the next schedule (may be daily or thrice a week)
6.) Fighters donot desecrate other threads, if they do, they will be banned from FIGHT THREAD.
how's the idea :D?
Lets lay down the rules.
Rule#1 There are No Rules
Rule#2 There shall be No Rules
Rule#3 There will be No Rules
Its freestyle.
What I propose here is a FIGHT THREAD.
Yes, this is a copycat idea from FIGHT CLUB
How we go about:
1.) Establish a dedicated thread - just for fighting.
2.) At a pre-determined time (of day or night), fighters login.
3.) They start fighting and all posts/fights will be restricted to FIGHT THREAD only.
4.) Fight ends at a specificed time.
5.) Fighters take a break until the next schedule (may be daily or thrice a week)
6.) Fighters donot desecrate other threads, if they do, they will be banned from FIGHT THREAD.
how's the idea :D?
Lets lay down the rules.
Rule#1 There are No Rules
Rule#2 There shall be No Rules
Rule#3 There will be No Rules
Its freestyle.
DesiGuy
09-17 01:57 PM
Wait, what kind of link is it? I've tried with 4 (Firefox, IE6, Chrome and Safari) and they all want to save that link. MediaPlayer and Quicktime refuse to play it too. WTF?
it's a direct link...open using REal player or real alternative.
else go to this page and click on calendar icon for today
http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/calendar.html
it's a direct link...open using REal player or real alternative.
else go to this page and click on calendar icon for today
http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/calendar.html
more...
caliguy
09-18 01:35 PM
Thanks @ geesee.
I was transferred to a IO yesterday. She was rude, told me that I should not be calling since they responsed to the first SR that was opened by my attorney on 09/01.
Not sure if you read the other thread, but I have got 2 responses from USCIS so far - one for inquiry that was sent when I took the Infopass and the other one that was opened by my attorney.
Response that I got for inquiry from my Infopass was " Based on the additional documentation provided, your case qualifies for expedited processing. You should hear back from us in 60 days. If you do not hear back in 60 days, please call us back".
I havent provided any documentation to them in the last 2 years, after my FP was done in September 2007.
So when I talked to the IO, she read out that message to me and in a subtle way asked me "What part of that message do you not get"?? I was trying to explain the situation to her, and before I could finish - she said "Sir, I got to move on and take other calls, please dont call back before November 15th".
And then she said the part that chuckles me the most - Sir, is there anything else you would like to me repeat, or do you have any other questions.....??
Hell yeah, I only have one question - when will I get the magic email?? :o
I was transferred to a IO yesterday. She was rude, told me that I should not be calling since they responsed to the first SR that was opened by my attorney on 09/01.
Not sure if you read the other thread, but I have got 2 responses from USCIS so far - one for inquiry that was sent when I took the Infopass and the other one that was opened by my attorney.
Response that I got for inquiry from my Infopass was " Based on the additional documentation provided, your case qualifies for expedited processing. You should hear back from us in 60 days. If you do not hear back in 60 days, please call us back".
I havent provided any documentation to them in the last 2 years, after my FP was done in September 2007.
So when I talked to the IO, she read out that message to me and in a subtle way asked me "What part of that message do you not get"?? I was trying to explain the situation to her, and before I could finish - she said "Sir, I got to move on and take other calls, please dont call back before November 15th".
And then she said the part that chuckles me the most - Sir, is there anything else you would like to me repeat, or do you have any other questions.....??
Hell yeah, I only have one question - when will I get the magic email?? :o
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go_guy123
05-07 03:02 PM
First of all Congratulations desi#### and thanks for continuing to support IV.
Interesting discussion going on. Yes, I agree that most of us here are waiting for our GC and some of them go on to become US Citizens.
I believe that becoming a citizen of any country is a person's choice, so let us not give desi### a hard time here.:o
But I certainly do not think it is an 'achievement' to get a US citizenship, just because it implies indirectly it is an 'achievement' to let go off Indian citizenship. Nothing meant to offend you desi#### but it hurts when one reads such a statement somewhere deep inside the mind. But hey, as I said earlier, to each his own and noone should be judging others in their decisions.
And it is not only Indians becoming US citizens every year. There are others too.
Personally, even with all the advantages as stated above of being a US citizen, I will never let go of my Indian passport. Even if the authorities give it to me tomorrow in a lottery;) Never.
Why? Because my identity, my rich heritage, my family roots, my parents, my culture everything is Indian and am proud of it. There are lot of sentimental and emotional attachments. I was going through the OCI articles today after reading this discussion.
It is not exactly a dual citizenship. Some clauses are no voting rights! No Indian Passport!
Getting a GC is another thing, but when I decide to go back after a couple of years, I would definitely want to retain my voting rights. ! I rest my case.
US citizenship is a final stop for most/many immigrants. Post Sep 11, there has been a surge in nationalization applications because technically GC is like a long term visa to stay permanently. Therefore there is always a risk of losing GC because of DUI or other trivial or accidental issues etc.
Also post Sep 11, a lot of govt/sensitive projects that were available for GC only have been restricted to US Citizens. You lose a significant chunk of the available jobs market if you are a GC holder in the Maryland/DC/North Virgina area. In fact I know a lot of GC who kept their old passports but because of these hassles eventually decided for Naturalization.
Interesting discussion going on. Yes, I agree that most of us here are waiting for our GC and some of them go on to become US Citizens.
I believe that becoming a citizen of any country is a person's choice, so let us not give desi### a hard time here.:o
But I certainly do not think it is an 'achievement' to get a US citizenship, just because it implies indirectly it is an 'achievement' to let go off Indian citizenship. Nothing meant to offend you desi#### but it hurts when one reads such a statement somewhere deep inside the mind. But hey, as I said earlier, to each his own and noone should be judging others in their decisions.
And it is not only Indians becoming US citizens every year. There are others too.
Personally, even with all the advantages as stated above of being a US citizen, I will never let go of my Indian passport. Even if the authorities give it to me tomorrow in a lottery;) Never.
Why? Because my identity, my rich heritage, my family roots, my parents, my culture everything is Indian and am proud of it. There are lot of sentimental and emotional attachments. I was going through the OCI articles today after reading this discussion.
It is not exactly a dual citizenship. Some clauses are no voting rights! No Indian Passport!
Getting a GC is another thing, but when I decide to go back after a couple of years, I would definitely want to retain my voting rights. ! I rest my case.
US citizenship is a final stop for most/many immigrants. Post Sep 11, there has been a surge in nationalization applications because technically GC is like a long term visa to stay permanently. Therefore there is always a risk of losing GC because of DUI or other trivial or accidental issues etc.
Also post Sep 11, a lot of govt/sensitive projects that were available for GC only have been restricted to US Citizens. You lose a significant chunk of the available jobs market if you are a GC holder in the Maryland/DC/North Virgina area. In fact I know a lot of GC who kept their old passports but because of these hassles eventually decided for Naturalization.
more...
GC08
02-04 05:23 PM
I suppose it is a good thing to stop this practice, which seems to be abused a lot. Hopefully, it will put everything in order and people will be treated fairly. :D
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gsvisu
07-12 11:47 AM
All right go for CHAI after the rally !
This is a perfectly Gandhian idea:-) (He did that in South Africa)
Let's do it... the beer part should be postponed to some other time... presumably after all categories become C:-)
This is a perfectly Gandhian idea:-) (He did that in South Africa)
Let's do it... the beer part should be postponed to some other time... presumably after all categories become C:-)
more...
maverick_joe
01-30 06:30 PM
done. its Q 30 now..does anyone know how many Qs woud be asked from out there? is it the top 10? top 5?
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vin13
09-17 10:58 AM
its 5 min to 11 and they still have not started?...oh I am getting impatient :(
more...
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pswar
10-24 04:30 PM
I just looked at my old cases(H1Bs-I-129) and i see LUDs on them too!!! This is so weird.
These are from my last company!
LUD on 05/06/2006 - Approved on October 11, 2003
LUD on 10/21/2007 - Approved on March 19, 2002
I see LUDs but no difference in the status. They both say approval notice sent.
These are from my last company!
LUD on 05/06/2006 - Approved on October 11, 2003
LUD on 10/21/2007 - Approved on March 19, 2002
I see LUDs but no difference in the status. They both say approval notice sent.
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justAnotherFile
08-20 11:57 AM
StuckInMuck thanks for the awesome compilation. I have a follow-up question to the guru's on forum.
I did an AC21 before my GC got approved. I did this on my EAD card and when I joined I filed my I9 form for taxes. Now after getting GC do I need to renew my I9 form or the old one stays valid?
Also since I am not with my GC sponsoring employer do I still need to follow the 6 months rule with my current employer since date of approval?
Also can we move this compilation to IV Wiki?
#1 You need to update the I-9 form of verification because previously you employment authorization was the EAD card now your employment authorization is the GC card.
#2 First of all there is no 6 month rule. Secondly even if theoretically there is a undefined period it does not apply to you anymore since you are no longer with your GC filing employer.
I did an AC21 before my GC got approved. I did this on my EAD card and when I joined I filed my I9 form for taxes. Now after getting GC do I need to renew my I9 form or the old one stays valid?
Also since I am not with my GC sponsoring employer do I still need to follow the 6 months rule with my current employer since date of approval?
Also can we move this compilation to IV Wiki?
#1 You need to update the I-9 form of verification because previously you employment authorization was the EAD card now your employment authorization is the GC card.
#2 First of all there is no 6 month rule. Secondly even if theoretically there is a undefined period it does not apply to you anymore since you are no longer with your GC filing employer.
more...
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go_guy123
06-13 01:22 AM
IT IS AS SIMPLE AS THIS ----
IV has to convince the government that this mess was created because close to 100000 visas were WASTED/UnUsed while BEC was busy(or not busy) sorting through the cases. If it is the mistake of a govt department, then the govt should fix it by recapturing these visas. They will act only when you make them look bad or file a suit against them. Why hasn't IV been able to push a simple argument like this????
If only it was that simple. There is too much of corporate vested interest
to allow the H1B servitude to go on. So much vested interests in the
Hispanic caucus not to allow "only" EB reform to pass without CIR.
IV has to convince the government that this mess was created because close to 100000 visas were WASTED/UnUsed while BEC was busy(or not busy) sorting through the cases. If it is the mistake of a govt department, then the govt should fix it by recapturing these visas. They will act only when you make them look bad or file a suit against them. Why hasn't IV been able to push a simple argument like this????
If only it was that simple. There is too much of corporate vested interest
to allow the H1B servitude to go on. So much vested interests in the
Hispanic caucus not to allow "only" EB reform to pass without CIR.
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humdesi
10-16 10:06 PM
Namechecks:
IV will be soon posting some updates on this. We have done some ground work on this issue in the recent past and have got positive response. Stronger support from our members, will definitely help us push this agenda item. IV feels that this issue is going to be a big roadblock for a lot of us now, after people have filed their I485s. It is possible to get a much wider bi-partisan support on this issue by us and we are already pursuing it.
Pls. stay tuned on this issue.
So what's the new development?
IV will be soon posting some updates on this. We have done some ground work on this issue in the recent past and have got positive response. Stronger support from our members, will definitely help us push this agenda item. IV feels that this issue is going to be a big roadblock for a lot of us now, after people have filed their I485s. It is possible to get a much wider bi-partisan support on this issue by us and we are already pursuing it.
Pls. stay tuned on this issue.
So what's the new development?
more...
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Green.Tech
06-03 08:57 AM
...to the top.
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jayleno
10-06 07:36 PM
Dont you worry....as requested...you are ignored.
Guys,
I know this is immigration forum , so People who are not interested in this thread please ignore.
Considering the State of Markets and Global economy.
Do you guys think it make sense to buy a Flat/Single family house in India , I am going to india in Mid october. Should i take the lunge and buy some proerty there...This would be the first home..so no Home equity Loan..It will be on 12% interest Rae from some indian bank.
Please throw some ideas..
Guys,
I know this is immigration forum , so People who are not interested in this thread please ignore.
Considering the State of Markets and Global economy.
Do you guys think it make sense to buy a Flat/Single family house in India , I am going to india in Mid october. Should i take the lunge and buy some proerty there...This would be the first home..so no Home equity Loan..It will be on 12% interest Rae from some indian bank.
Please throw some ideas..
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whoever
02-06 02:05 PM
which country you belong to?
nish03
03-13 01:32 PM
employment and family
Right, but employment and family are further broken into sub categories. Which group is FX (F1, F2,etc) and which one is EX(EB-1,EB-2,etc)? I see these two categories that are generally not in the visa bulletin I see on the state gov's web site:
FX 1 May 2002 1 May 2002
EX Unavailable Unavailable
thanks
Right, but employment and family are further broken into sub categories. Which group is FX (F1, F2,etc) and which one is EX(EB-1,EB-2,etc)? I see these two categories that are generally not in the visa bulletin I see on the state gov's web site:
FX 1 May 2002 1 May 2002
EX Unavailable Unavailable
thanks
swamy
11-28 01:02 PM
I am not sure we want to gag him - it's kind of late too to do that. But letting the sponsors know they are encouraging hate-groups is good. If this would work CNN itself may have pulled the plug on him
